Thursday, May 23, 2013

What I'm leaning towards

   Ok, so there has been some pretty good discussion / suggestions on what this kickstarter should focus on and reward levels.  Some hard decisions had to be made and one of the things I decided to do to make some of these decisions easier was to commission Paul Muller to make Kostchtchie, a Larva Base, and some Dretch.  These will not have to be part of the stretch goals and will be available as soon as the Kickstarter launches.

   The other thing that I have been thinking about a lot has been the target buy in level and how much it should be and what should come with it.  I just got the estimated production cost per miniature and the good news is that they are a lot less expensive to produce than I estimated.  I looked back at the Center Stage Miniatures Kickstarter and saw that his main buy in level was $75.00 for 4 demons and 2 character models. I am thinking that my main buy in level should be $90.00 and come with the following miniatures:
  • Type I Demon
  • Type III Demons (x2)
  • Type IV Demon
  • The Cambion Lord
  • Manes (x6)
  • Dretch (x6)
  • Titivilus 
  • Dispater
  • Garuda
  • Larva Base
That is a total of 21 miniatures for $90 or roughly $4.25 per miniature.  I think that is a pretty good deal.

   I will also be making items on the list swappable for other items of similar size.  This means everything will be size rated to make it easier to know what can be swapped for what.  For instance a Type I Demon will be coded as Large and any other Large miniature that I currently produce or is unlocked during the Kickstarter can be swapped.


  1. I think that is a fantastic deal, and offers a great value to potential backers. Making the list swappable will also make the Kickstarter more appealing to people who already have models of a particular creature and would like a different one.

    I believe this set-up will work very well, and I am definitely in favor of it.

  2. Sounds like a great deal indeed.

  3. This looks VERY good to me and I will be in at the $90 level out of the gate. I think it will be very appealing to a broad swath of miniature collectors and gamers. I believe that the quality of the greens and the your existing stock will bring the best out in this KS. Hope you get to unlock the Type II demons soon! Cheers!

  4. Like the others, I think its a super deal for the quality and quantity of figures offered. But swaps, while great for the buyer, could make fulfillment complicated as each backer exchanges different minis for different substitutions. And the confused backers who misunderstand which are small medium or large as they plan their swaps are going to be a hassle.
    I've seen a couple KS that have used points (or some themed unit of goods) for a pledge level, and each figure is assigned a point cost. So, your $90 buy in gets the backer "x" points -which would be enough to get one each of the initial offering, plus any KS exclusives, or they can choose any combination that adds up to "x". This could reduce your logistical burden from backer 1234 pledged "y" and substitutes a, c and g for 2 extra b and one q. To 1234 pledged " y" and selected 3b, d, e, f and q.
    Maybe this is what you already had in mind or maybe the suggestion isn't appealing. But with so many figures potentially on offer and exchanges and swaps, some will be confused and fulfillment could get cumbersome.

    1. Unfortunate to have gone almost half-way through the KS and move to this format anyways.

  5. Will stretch goals be added? That was a major plus for CSMs kickstarter. they ended up giving 33 demons plus 2 characters for the $75 with the stretch goals.

  6. Sounds good I was expecting about $100

  7. Can't wait! Will the other figures from your site (like Geryon) be available through the Kickstarter?

    1. Yes absolutely I am looking at putting Geryon at $20.00.

  8. @Skeetyrbug

    There might be 2-3 stretch goals that add free stuff but not more than that. I don't think it is arrogant to say that the Paul Muller sculpts are far superior to anything CSM offered in their Kickstarter and it just would not be financially possible to offer the same volume of miniatures at anything approaching the same price.


    I am planning on simply giving each miniature a specific size category. For instance Small, Medium, Large, X-Large, and XXL. You can swap any miniature of the same size for another. I might do a point system but I will need to sit down this weekend and try and figure that out.


    Yeah I am trying to make things as cheap as possible and I will be offering some early bird specials that take a little bit off the price. I will be announcing the launch here first so you guys will have a crack at the early bird specials first.

  9. @Fractured Dimensions
    So, all the stretch goals will be add-on costs? Just clarifying. Any ballpark on price-per-mini? If a bunch of those stretches get hit, that could get prohibitively expensive.

    And no matter who the sculpter is, its only a value to a certain point. Not being a jerk, just trying to figure out the prices.

    Is there going to be the ability to order a' la carte? Some of these I have no interest in, but some VERY MUCH interest.

  10. From some other threads it sounds like Brett's plan was to offer the ability to be selective - so my guess is the Stretch Goals are more of Ad-Ons. If not - then I agree it gets prohibitively expensive.

  11. @skeetyrbug

    Yes, all the stretch goals will be add-ons. Basically you are looking at $15.00 for LARGE miniatures, $20.00 for EXTRA LARGE miniatures, and $30+ for the handful of HUGE miniatures. Kostchtchie counts as an EXTRA LARGE, the Type IV Demon is an example of a LARGE miniature, and Demogorgon counts as a HUGE and he will probably come in at around $30.00 and he will be really big. Medium sized come in a wide variety from $3.00 to $10.00.

    A'la Carte is absolutely the way this is going to work. Basically there are levels for 1 miniature, 2 miniatures, 3 miniatures, just all 5 of the miniatures, the full blown $95.00 level. So you can mix and match. If you only want a Type I Demon and a Type IV Demon plus some of the stretch goals you can just pledge for 2 Miniatures and whatever stretch goals you want.

    You can also swap so if you buy in at a certain level but don't want 2 of the large miniatures in that pledge level you can pick 2 other large miniatures that have been unlocked through stretch goals.

    It certainly is only a value at a certain level and some people will think what I am doing is too expensive, which I certainly understand. But at the end of the day it costs me a certain amount of money to hire Paul to get things done so I can't compete with cheaper alternatives like CSM did. I won't skimp on the quality of the sculpt so we are where we are on that :)

  12. So at the $95 level, will you be getting 13 smalls (manes, dretches and larva base), 4 mediums (Titvulus, Dispater and Garuda), and 4 larges (Type I, 2x Type III and Type IV)? At this type of breakdown, it makes trading relatively limited as many of the Add-Ons are Large or Bigger and almost no smalls. Have you considered a simple formula like 2x S = 1x M, 2x M = 1L? Seems to be well received in the current CSM KS.

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  14. Had a big long comment about attitudes of small miniatures manufacturers (ALL of them), read it to myself a few times, and just decided whats the point?

    Hope the KS does well for you, its good for the RPG industry if we all have toys. I would have liked to have some of these, but not with the attitude.

  15. Hey Brett, I think the challenge you'll face is that many Backers (at least from the comments and daily trends I see) get into these mini/terrain KickStarters in hopes of building value as the KS progresses. In the case of this one, as the way I understand you have it set-up, the cost per mini will actually increase as you acquire more Add-Ons at higher prices. So I guess the value that Backers see is in the ability to swap. So, I think making swapping as flexible as possible (across size ranges) should help allow for the “snowball” effect at the end of the funding period. I’ll be interested to see how your model flies. Good luck!