Tuesday, May 21, 2013

Kickstarter update

Ok, the master molds have been completed, the master castings are done, and I should have samples of the following miniatures:

Type I Demon
Type III Demon (a)
Type III Demon (b)
Type IV Demon
Cambion Lord

by Saturday.  Once I have these all I need to do is get the rest of the concept art which should be finished by this weekend also.  Right now I am looking at roughly 25 pieces of concept art to get through the first batch of stretch goals and for Kickstarter Exclusives.  If all goes well I will submit the kickstarter for approval this weekend.

Here is what I am looking at for stretch goals and everything.  Paul Muller has agreed in principal to sculpt everything up so it will stay consistent.

Funding Goal is $2,500

Stretch Goals
$5,000 Stretch Goal --> Orcus, Type V Demon, and Larva Bases (x2)
$7,500 Stretch Goal --> Demogorgon and Chasme
$10,000 Stretch Goal --> Kostchtchie and Belial
$12,500 Stretch Goal --> Asmodeus and Pazuzu
$15,000 Stretch Goal --> Baphomet and Bael
$17,500 Stretch Goal --> The Spider Queen
$20,000 Stretch Goal --> Type VI Demon and Rutterkin (x2)
$22,500 Stretch Goal --> Baalzebulb
$25,000 Stretch Goal --> Lord of the Gnolls
$27,500 Stretch Goal --> Type VII Demon
$30,000 Stretch Goal --> Bearded Devils (x3)
$32,500 Stretch Goal --> Bone Devil I and Bone Devil II
$35,000 Stretch Goal --> Amon and his Dire Wolf
$37,500 Stretch Goal --> Hutjin
$40,000 Stretch Goal --> Dretch (x3) and Nabassu
$42,500 Stretch Goal --> Mephistopheles
$45,000 Stretch Goal --> Moloch
$47,500 Stretch Goal --> Mammon
$50,000 Stretch Goal --> Ice Devil I and Ice Devil II
$52,500 Stretch Goal --> Horned Devil
$55,000 Stretch Goal --> Handmaiden of the Spider Queen and Cambion
$57,500 Stretch Goal --> Succubus and Erinyes
$60,000 Stretch Goal --> Pit Fiend
$62,500 Stretch Goal --> Molydeus
$65,000 Stretch Goal --> Nupperibo (x3)
$67,500 Stretch Goal --> Thraak-ull
$70,000 Stretch Goal --> Small Abishai (x3) and Large Abishai
$72,500 Stretch Goal --> Medium Abishai (x3)
$75,000 Stretch Goal --> Shadow Demon and Hell Hounds (x3)
$77,500 Stretch Goal --> Nightmare and Spined Devils (x4)
$80,000 Stretch Goal --> Hordlings (x3)
$82,500 Stretch Goal --> Alu-Demon and Bodak
$85,000 Stretch Goal --> Stench Cow and Styx Devil
$87,500 Stretch Goal --> Bar-lgura (x3)
$90,000 Stretch Goal --> Bensozia, Nergal, and Dagon

Kickstarter Only Miniatures
Solomon the Puritan
Dorg the Rogue
Clavdrae, Dark Elf Priestess of the Spider Queen
Val Martigan

Comment away on what you like and don't like (actually don't like is probably more important).


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Oh man, I am really looking forward to this. I really like the list you have for demons and devils. Can't wait to get my hands on one of those Cambion Lords. The only thing I think I would prefer with this list is maybe have some of the more common devils intermingled with the big guys as earlier stretch goals. Not that I dislike the idea of the big guys, but I feel it may attract more people earlier. I feel like more people would have more use for more "generic" demons and devils. That said, i do think this will be a non-issue as I imagine a lot of support for this project.

    I really like the list of Kickstarter only minis, I have been having a bear of a time finding a great Paladin and Anti-Paladin with an OSR feel, and if the Paladin green is anything to judge by, I'll love them both. A Solomon (Kane) miniature is icing on the cake and would be great as a witch hunter type- great to lead around a mob of vindictive peasants.

    Overall, I'm very excited!

  3. Wow. It's demons AND devils now. Can't find fault with that list (nor with your choice of sculptor). I have a feeling this is going to be huge and Paul will be very busy for the foreseeable future.

  4. First, I'm really excited about this KS. The quality of the greens is superb, and the comprehensive list is astounding. I think the success will depend upon the value you can bring to the Pledgers. In general, I think folks will be happy to pay between $5 & $10 per mini if it is a modertae success. I do suspect that it'll be difficult to drive the masses to spend over $200, and more likely over $100, unless the value is really great.

    You're coming on the heels of CSM Devils and Demons KS, and they've now offered any of these minis to there current TOH KS. For that reason I agree with Sabotage, avoid from loading with the Princes, Dukes and Lords and rather make the more common Lower Plane types available.

  5. Also, why not leverage your existing inventory, such as Jubilex, Tivi, Dispater, etc.? Some of these sculpts are really nice. Where did the 4x Type II demons go? I saw some rough greens from an earlier blog. Seems strange to omit these from the list.

    BTW - it should have read "front loading" from my previous entry.

  6. Looks very cool. I have the old demogorgon from grenadier, not very baboon face like so this will be a great model to get. I'll definately be backing this. I like Val Martigan :)

  7. Awesome! by any chance is the Solomon The Puritan mini, Solomon Kane inspired? if so even more awesome!!!

  8. @Kieran Billings

    I think you will find that Val Martigan and Sasha make a pretty good team.


    I always loved Robert E. Howard. Might even do a Conan inspired mini sometime soon!

    @ Sabotage

    Glad you like the kickstarter only list. I am probably going to make them the free stretch goals. So for instance if I hit $10,000 you get a free kickstarter only miniature. Still mulling this over though

    I will look at reconfiguring the list to put a higher priority on some of the more common types too.

    @ Mortal Arrow

    Lets get the easy parts of the discussion over with first :). Basically the stuff I have produced already including the Type IIs will be art of the kickstarter. They will at the very least be add ons at discounted prices and I am also considering offering them as freebies at certain stretch goal levels. The final decision will have to wait until I find out the projected production costs of the current batch of miniatures. I want to keep things as inexpensive as is realistic but if they Demons have to priced at $20.00 a piece that starts to make things hard.

    Not only is price a consideration but I have to look at what I can reasonably afford to offer as freebies. Almost nothing on that list will be offered for free because the cost would be too high so I need to pick and choose what can be thrown in for free. I would like to make the "target" buy in level less than $100. This means that there really isn't a lot of room to offer free miniatures, especially the larger ones. For instance Demogorgon is probably going to cost me around $2000 to make and possibly $10.00 for each casting. Offering him for free as a stretch goal just wouldn't be reasonable. This is why I am looking at offering the smaller miniatures as stretch goals. They are cheaper to produce and the sculpting costs are lower.

  9. Well, IMHO this KS will be looking at the same group of Backers in on the CSM and Otherworld KS projects. The Bones and DwarvenForge KS projects appealed to much broader markets for the value proposition which is impossible to get to with metal minis. So, for example your upper limit is 1,000 Backers, but maybe under 300 is more reasonable to expect for the sake of cost calculations. I'd propose Stretch Goals (which I think many people expect to be free) of smaller creatures which are not easy to get elsewhere (e.g. Larva, Nupperibo, Stench Cow, Bodak etc.). This will drive interest from those who can, or already have gotten, nice sculpts of demons and devils from the other companies mentioned (e.g. Horned Devils, Ice Devils, etc.). Then unlocking the bigger, more interesting Lords, Dukes as Add-Ons might help keep costs in check while still driving interest to Additional Pledge funds. I do think these "uber" Add-Ons should steer clear of those that are readily available (not-Demogorgon, not-Orcus, etc.) and focus on the never to be found Kostchtchie, Balzebulb, Pazuzu, etc. I'm sorry if I've either reiterated your thoughts or over-stepping my bounds, but just interested in seeing this KS be highly successful.

  10. I agree with MortalArrow that this KS will mostly be supported by that type of backers that would back CSM or Otherworld type projects rather than Bones and some of the larger projects out there, and I definitely believe that to be a good thing. I feel that group of backers have more realistic expectations of what a small company like Fractured Dimensions can reasonably offer without losing money, they want quality over quantity.

    Many of the larger companies out there can throw out a TON of free add-ons to their projects (I'm looking at you CMON), but that is generally because 1) They are offering things which cost next to nothing to produce once the initial sculpting/molding fee is paid- like cheap single pose plastics and 2) They can expect to get in the high hundred thousands or millions range. I would never expect, nor would I want, a smaller business to be expected to do that. I think the best way for Fractured Dimensions and the backers to succeed would be to offer several rewards levels based around "model selections," with a bit more savings built into each higher level (and of course additional models at add on prices).

    Hypothetically Fractured Dimensions could divide models into categories A (small models), B (human sized models), C (Large models or several small models), and D (Huge models or several human sized), etc). A 25$ level could offer X selections at 5$ savings, a 50$ selection could offer 2X selections at 10$ savings, a 75$ selection could offer 3X selections at a 15$ savings and could be your sweet spot pledge where people get 1 free exclusive (and all the higher levels would too) or something. Doing a savings/ selection based system also gives incentives for people to up their pledges when more models are unlocked, as if they want several unlocked models that can up their pledge to the next appropriate level and save a few more bucks over buying all the model individually.

    I'm not saying this is the way to go or anything Fractured, but I think offering savings rather than lots of freebies would be the way to go. That way you won't be bleeding out money and the backers will be happy to save some cash. If you do decided to do free stretch goals I would go the route you suggested and have it be where every 10k or so you can get a free exclusive mini, or a free human sized selection or something. I feel if you offered all the stretch goals at free, you'd be in a very bad financial situation.

    That said, I do agree with MortalArrow on offering some of the things that are harder find (don't have commonly available models) at relatively early levels would definitely entice people to pledge. Although I do feel Demons I-V and the more common Devils (Bone, Bearded, Ice, etc.) would be the most popular items as I feel the largest number of pledgers will have more use for them in any games they may play, so it's really a tough call.

    Apologies if that was a bit much, and I don't mean to step on any toes, just offering the advice I do have (though I am far from an expert in this area).

  11. I agree with that also. Giving people the option of choosing what they want from a list of things could really help. Someone that doesn't want the more specialised look of some of the miniatures may decide to buy in for more generic looking creatures or they may not want to buy in because they have some of the miniature types already but if they have the prion of picking and choosing they would be more likely to pledge.
    Just a thought, what sort of IP issues will you be dealing with? Maybe the names need to be changed to something more generic otherwise you may find all the hard work goes for nought.

  12. IP issues regarding names were a problem with the CSM KS with them ending up changing some names mid-stream.

  13. @Mortal Arrow

    Don't ever worry about reiterating or overstepping your bounds. I need to hear opinions so keep it coming!


    I need to look and see what they changed and do the same thing.

    Lots to think about and I am off to work and even worse the blog is blocked there so I will post again tonight. Thanks for all the input!

    1. WOTC didn't assert their IP rights until after the CSM KS ended. Names of creatures were the bulk, but a few sculpts (and changes to planned sculpts from concept art) had to be changed as well.
      Rather than proper names, they were identified by their title. So, Orcus is 'demon prince of undead' and Kostchtchie would be 'demon prince of wrath'.

    2. Oh, except for the ones with a biblical or historical basis. CSM kept Asmodeus, Mammon, Geryon, succubus, erinyes and some others.

  14. Here are some more bits for you to chew on. The CSM D&D is clearly a good thing to look at for a successful model (at least from the perspective of total pledge amount and number of backers). Their Buy-In for $75 ultimately got 30+ metal minis of small, medium and large-sizes. Add-Ons were in the range of $14 for the biggest Lords/Princes, $8-$12 for most Large-sizes and $1 -$5 for most Medium/Small-sized minis. I’m a huge fan of the swap concept – as described by Sabotage. This helps you keep costs in check and doesn’t scare aware Backers who aren’t looking for more dupes. I also feel that a Buy-In level with all the non-Lords/Princes Stretch Goals for free will raise the value and make it so much more attractive. The challenge will be to drive pledge levels to the point where the Backers see the value being good enough (needs to be sub $5/mini in my opinion). Please note that CSM Torn Worlds KS was not very successful and had numerous Backers dramatically reducing in the final hours because Stretch Rewards levels were not achieved for a good perceived value.

    Anyhow, a quick look at the OW project on IndieGoGo looks to have provided less aggressive stretch rewards (about a dozen medium and small sized) and a more moderate per piece Buy-In ($5 - $7 per medium-sized piece). I don’t think that model will hold up as well for a US-based company. Perhaps hearing from a Backer who participated in this project would be enlightening.

    I’m hardly an expert, but find this so interesting. Good Luck!!!

  15. I backed the indiegogo campaign at a very small amount so couldn't really comment mainly because I didn't want a huge amount of adventurers. Other than that I can't really remember what the campaign was like :_(

  16. @Mortal Arrow

    I won't be able to match CSM on price point but I am going to make things as affordable as possible. Basically a medium size miniature (ie 28mm) will be between $5 and $10, a large (ie the Type I, Type III, and Type IV Demons) will be around $15.00, while the XL figures (say Orcus and company) will be between $20 and $25. Demogorgon being both large and bulky will be around $30 and $35.